(00:13) KT:
A very Good Afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen. It’s time and probably we’ll just start the last Panel for today. Thank you very much for joining us, for the panel titled:
Social Change / Action in Japanese Dramaturgy.
My name’s Ken Takiguchi, this panel’s Agent Provocateur. Actually I’m not here to be provocative. I want to provide some context of this panel. Because this panel might be slightly, more specific in terms of the focus of our discussion, as well as the framework of our topic.
So what we wish to discuss in this panel is site-specific performances and the politics behind it. Putting this topic in ADN’s context, I hope to explore this issue from 2 very specific perspectives.
Number 1 is Asia. Of course, from this morning we discussed lot on what Asia means. I just don’t want to go deep into the topic. What I mean by Asia is a kind of regional perspective? A kind of plurality in terms of watching this particular topic and exploring this topic.
And Number 2 is the role of Dramaturges in connecting these Site-specific performances to the society. Again, this is not about Dramaturgy, but very specifically, the role of Dramaturges as people. Those who define themselves as Dramaturges, in whatever means.
So, I am very grateful that we have three, very experienced speakers with us. And actually when I was approached by How Egean, to form a panel for this ADN event, they were very generous. And I just, you know, tried to form this panel out of my very personal curiosity. I think that it is proper to provide some context and what I want to know through this panel.
I was based in Malaysia and Singapore from 1999 - 2016. So it has been about a year to be back in Japan. So what impressed me the most, is the huge momentum created by the Olympic Games schedule in 2020. And great amount of resources have been put into Art and Culture as well. I vaguely noticed the kind of momentum when I was in Singapore. For example, the new grants scheme introduced by various funding bodies. But it was only after when I came back here, I started to realise, the scale of this National endeavour and its implications in the Arts.
At the same time however, I started to think. So putting this gigantic scale aside, the issues at stake, might remain the same. The relationship between Arts and Society, and so called publicness of the Arts. Which have been widely discussed, as least for a couple of decades. So this is why, I wanted to review the process of the project that focuses on the community and the locality. And this would be an entry point to explore the social dynamics that we are encountering now. The question I want to ask through this panel is:
How would the project which are mostly developed upon organic and minimum relationship change or unchange when the public money and the political agenda came into the picture. And I believe that this would have some relation to the question, you know, that (x speaker) asked this morning on the participation and complexity. So this might be an issue, probably other countries are facing as well. The community theatre for example, has been above of, in Singaporean theatre as well.
So when I think of this kind of questions, our 1st speaker, Leow Puay Tin came to Japan for her 6month fellowship. I see the Malaysian playwright on a text curator, and her research during her fellowship was only on Site-specific works. And she observed a number of projects in Japan, and we met almost every fortnight. And had many discussions about her findings and the very concept of Site-specific. And I realised that her research is very relatable on my question, on the Art, on Society in the current environment.
So, when I started to think about this panel, it was pretty natural that I thought:
Why don’t I use this framework of our conversations on this particular topic as the framework of this panel. And I expect that Puay Tin will share her ideas on Site-Specificity which would be a very good introduction to our topic as well. I’m also quite interested in her reading of Japanese Site-specific works which would provide a kind of regional perspective on that as well.
And following Puay Tin’s presentation, we have 2 speakers who have worked extensively on projects focusing on the community as a dramaturge. So our 2nd speaker, Mr Kaku Nagashima, is one of the pioneering Dramaturges in Japan. And has collaborated with many Theatre Directors and Companies. He also initiated a number of Site Specific works and he gave me his books on his works at the Tokyo Art Council, Tokyo Art Point Project. And from which I learnt a lot about his practice on Site Specific works. And I was fortunate to have several chances to sit down with him and we’d have chats for hours. So when I started to think about this panel, again, very naturally, I wanted to have him onboard. And also, Puay Tin watched some of his works during her stay. So there should be some direct linkage during Puay Tin’s presentation and Kaku-san’s presentation. And of course, he will talk about the politics he observed in the course of implementation of the performances, and his role as Dramaturge.
And our 3rd speaker, Masashi Nomura. He’s a Dramaturge and a Producer. I have been following his Facebook posts. And I always been wanting to know more about his work. That’s why I invited him. Since 2007, he has been with theatre company Seienden, founded by Hirata Oriza; and worked as Manager and Administrator of Komanba Agura Theatre, owned by Mr Hirata which is in Tokyo. He is also the Chief Program Officer of the Okinawa Prefectural Foundation for Cultural Promotion / Okinawa Arts Council. So, what I am most interested in is his position.
First, he worked for long in Tokyo, before moving to Okinawa. In Okinawa, he is, in a sense, an outsider. When I was in Singapore and Malaysia, I was also an outsider. Which gave me a very interesting position, to observe, what’s going on there. So, Masashi-san’s position is probably even more interesting. So he experienced the centre of this country, as well as peripherally. Probably, this is not good terminology, because it suggests some hierarchy. But, his multiple point of view on this country is pretty interesting for me.
And secondly, he is a Dramaturge, and working in a Cultural Organisation as a Program Officer. So this duality of his position is also very interesting for me. So I was very curious on how his perspectives as a Dramaturge informed his practices as a Program Officer at the Council. And the Council also supports many Site-specific performances and Community theatre.
So, after the presentations. I want to invite Puay Tin again to respond to the presentations by Kaku-san and Masashi-san. So, I want to ask you to be a Provocateur, rather than doing it by myself. So, this is the structure of this panel. And without further delay, I would like to invite Puay Tin, our 1st speaker.
(10:48) LPT:
Hello, everyone. Just to maybe give a little bit of background. So my interest in the Site-specific work, really stems from my work as a playwright, a text-curator, meaning I don’t always write my own text, sometimes I compose, creating text taking works which have been written by other people.
And my interest is also informed by the fact that I had performed before. I’ve stopped performing the last five years or so, just getting tired. Maybe too exhausted physically to undertake performance, because performances are very gruelling in their demands. And so for my interest, I’ve had interest in Site-specific performances in both Malaysia and Singapore. Where my own works, plays have been staged as Site-specific works in production.
But today, I will be looking at Site-specific in 2 different ways:
I will start first of all, by looking at the Site-specific, in terms of Productions. Because that behaves in a very different way from Site-specific, Text. This is something I’m discovering: oh, there is a difference.. But I will start with the Site-Specific Productions. Because it’s clearer, it’s out there and it’s easier to talk about. And then, based on how much time I have, I will discuss Site, as a place to ground Text for performance.
Now, you will find that my presentation today is going to be, non-linear. Because that is the way my mind works, it’s very hard for me to marshal my thoughts into an argument, you know? So please, jump around with me. My text tend to be modular as well, reflecting the way, naturally, organically.. That’s how my creativity takes place, so I don’t think there is any point in fighting nature. Not in this case anyway. And if you really don’t understand me, you please ask me at the end of it. I’ll be very happy to, maybe chat with you, you know, over dinner or a drink or something.
I will also explain little bit on how I look at Site-specific Productions. Because I try to analyse. And as I told Ken at one meeting, I said: it’s actually very boring to analyse. Not much is coming, not much interesting information is coming out, you know. So I’m just taking a very loose approach, if approach can even be a term for what I actually did. Which is, if I look at a Production, I’ll just look at: How has it been marketed? Because I find that what has been said about a Production and what really happened are actually, can be quite different. Sometimes subtly different, and sometimes, very, very different.
And the 2nd thing I want to look at is, you know: Look at the site. I’m not so interested in the Specific part of Site-specific, maybe it’ll become clear why the specific part is not critical. It’s the Site, that’s actually very important. So I’ll kook at the Site, in terms of: oh, what happened at that site that was used for that Production? So basically, I’ll look at the activities that have taken place. And also, I’ll be looking at: What does the audience do? Right? Or what was the role of the audience? Because that also will give us, for me anyway, quite a lot of information about how Sites are used in Production.
And I think maybe a 3rd thing would be, you know: What were the problems dealt with, which were presented by the Site? Because Sites are not innocent, you know? They are full of flaws and difficulties and dangers. And the biggest danger presented by the Site, is actually: Real Life. Reality. So it’s like, it runs counter, it’s almost counter-intuitive, you know? You put yourself into reality and then, you bloody have to deal with it, chance, and you know, weather, and dogs and babies and everything. So I find it’s very interesting: oh, hmm.. how they deal with.. In some cases, they don’t deal with them, you know. They find other ways to deal with reality, which I also find quite interesting as well.
Ok, so in the process, you know, I find that the Site-specific as a term has been bound up with so many other keywords, like Ken just used the word: Community. And then Site-specific in relation to public sphere, and Site-specific as related to local. To the here and now, meaning the present time. But I find that, ultimately the biggest playing field for Site-specific work is actually reality. And so, one of the questions or one of the things I’m very interested to look at in the Site-specific Production is: How did you deal with the reality? Or what aspects of reality from the site are presented through that performance?
I have kind of gone with the word Site-specific, even though I said it was Site, which I am really interested in. Well, that’s because Site-specific has become a catch-phrase and audience seems to understand what is meant by Site-specific. So I don’t think we, I need to invent a new term, like Community-specific, you know. Or Site generic or whatever, it’s just understood. And I think as the term has popularly been used right now under Site-specific, just means: Anything that is not presented, in a theatre venue, that’s all. If you just go with this very loose definition, it just makes sense that later, we can maybe put some markers around the word: Site. And that would be useful, but at a later date, I meant later time. And the Site-specific doesn’t mean outdoors, you know, in the public imagination, they think it’s outdoors. But actually quite a lot of Site-specific work is done in rooms like this, or under a roof anyway.
So I’ll be looking at 4 / 5 Site-specific productions, which I saw in Japan last year. And it’s a kind of case-study, just to you know, ground my discussion. So if you look at the information, which you can read for yourself: When they were staged, and for what occasion. And as it happens, the Tokyo Arts Council and Yokohama, I’m not sure which public body was involved. So these were publicly funded productions.
So I’m going to move on, because I think you can read that for yourself. So I will start with: Halfway to Hanshichi. Sorry, I only credited directors, because there are too many names, if I name all the dramaturges and all that. So, biased in that sense, ok. Now, you look at the keywords: Audiences will experience. You know, the Site-specific is always, or usually sold as an experience. So, it has to offer something more than what you can usually catch inside a theatre venue.
So, it’s a performance, plus an experience. So audiences will experience this, ok. And then you look at the word: Hunting. The audience have been cast as crime-investigators, you’ll be hunting for clues, that was the promise anyway. And a lot of Site-specific performances, I find, are related to travelling. Some kind mobility, either the performers move, or the audience move, or some things will move, you know? It’s not static. And again, you know, like Unique, special, these are words which are commonly used. But, keyword here is that it is an Experience.
It is not something that you can read about, right? And you will find that, I am only speaking about Productions that I have seen personally. Because I find that, you know, it’s, the experience of a Site-specific Production is very different than reading about it or being told about it. So I am sorry if you have not seen the same Production because I have to tell you about this. But you must understand that whatever I am telling you is very partial. It’s only from a particular viewpoint, of a particular audience member.
So this was staged in 6 locations, in Matsudo City:
- a studio
- a room in a former love hotel
- a traditional sitting room belonging to a kimono shop
- a kind of a non-descript space above a tourist information centre and
- by the river bank
Now, the story involves a mysterious, how many of you have seen this production by the way? Put up your hand. No one, oh, one. Besides, Kaku, who, you know, was a dramaturge, for this production.
So the mysterious case, involves a young woman, who was found murdered. And it was staged as a drama. And the production traced events back over time; to the moment when she first met the man who, eventually killed her.
Performed by actors, it was staged at the locations that I mentioned. Now, the locations were used as ready made settings for the performance. This is quite normal, quite usual with a lot of Site-specific productions. And the role of the audience, was as spectators. They sat and they watched. So the difference between a conventional performance, and this particular performance is:
The audience was required to walk, from location to location. So this is where the travelling was, ok. So, the interesting thing about this walking was, because the locations were not together. They were scattered throughout a certain part of the city. The audience would experience Performance, they would get out, they would experience Real-life. They would go on to the next location, experience the Drama again.
So it’s like intermittently: you know, Drama, Real-life, Drama, Real-life, Drama, Real-life. Now, the trouble with this is that, on the day that I went, I’m not sure on other days. There was a big festival going on in the streets of Matsudo city, right? And so the Real-life, oh my goodness, it’s so interesting. Kaku was, you know the audience was split into smaller groups, and he was the guide.
And he was telling us: do not look, just follow me, alright. So this relates to the problem I was talking about earlier, that you have to deal with Real-life. And this part, all the performances, the event, did not belong. To that particular tour anyway, that we were going through. So I think this is a good place to deal with the reality issues presented by the site. Using guides was a strategy, so make sure the audience can find the way to next location as a body. They get there, and timing is very important because the next scene was about to start, so everyone had to arrive at the same time.
So using guides was very important, and also the producers controlled the environment of the performance. For instance, by observing the fourth wall. So meaning that, the performers ignored the presence of the audience. Even though the audience was actually very close to them, given the size of the spaces, where the scenes took place. Basically they ignored them, or pretended that they were not there. And carried on, so there was like a glass wall between them. And in four of the six locations, seats were arranged for the audience. Meaning, they had to sit down to watch, there wasn’t the option of doing something else you know.
So in that case, they slightly, in their own ways, kind of, controlled the performance environment in these found locations. By replicating some of the environment of a theatre venue. So that allowed the performance to go on, without too much interruption.
Now what was the effect of watching the drama in those found locations? Actually, I thought the drama could be performed, in a conventional theatre, with good Set Design. But I think something would be lost, if it were done in a conventional theatre. Because the ambience, you know from those found places, couldn’t be replicated through Set Design alone. Because it was quite immersive, the audience was physically in that space, even though they were just watching and not doing anything else.
I find that the most interesting part of the production was actually, the drama. You know, because, by moving events back in time; I found that the drama was proposing, a certain fatalistic view about human life. Or maybe about the woman’s life, you know. I can’t claim for a fact, but this is my, kind of, instinctive response. Oh, it’s going back in time.. I was very surprised, you know, because, by going back in time, it made me feel like, oh.. death was already fated. Because the drama was actually realistic, there was a plot. So, because, we began with her death, there was no way subsequent scenes could have, undone that death. So I find that her fate was tragic, and it was sealed from the start. And so seeing her life performed, her story performed in those real locations, made it, for some reason made it very surreal. And it made it sad, it just gave a tone, which I can’t explain it to you. It felt sad for me, you know to watch that. It gave you an experience, which would not be available, if the same play was staged in a theatre venue.
Now, I was just thinking, this is just a thought, and if I were the Dramaturge, lets say, which I was not, I would suggested:
guys, instead of blocking out reality, in between locations, obviously we were not hunting for clues, as suggested by the promotional materials. Why don’t we have, the character, the woman who was killed, she could just walk us, lead us. She doesn’t have to say a word. And then instantly, the text, the drama, the sights and reality would just come together. But this is with hindsight, you know, if I were in the thick of it, it might not be obvious to me.
And I think this thought came to me because, I happened to see the show, when a lot of things were happening in the city.
Now I am going to move on to the next production. By the way, sorry, I forgot to show you this. Now, those are some of the locations which I lifted off the website. And this was the walking through the streets. Oh, wow, I have only 3 minutes left.
Some Lessons to Learn: Something Far is Near, Something Near is Far. It’s a cruise. So again, you look at the language right? It says mobile, so it’s travelling. it’s distinctive, the audience would now be listening instead of spectating. So the locations, no, this is not it. So the location was on a boat. Now I went online to find out what this project was about, because I didn’t understand the text which was performed in this production.
We got on a boat, so it was not a cruise in that sense. It was a boat, and we were travelling along the rivers in Yokohama. We were each given listening devices. We were listening to text translated into Japanese, of stories about refugees from Germany, Frankfurt, in particular. So this was from the MacDonald’s Radio University Project that Akira Takahama did in Frankfurt.
So, it was a very strange experience in that, the audience were very secluded. And then first thing, we were put on a boat. So we were like a captive audience. And then, we were given those individual devices, so we couldn’t do anything, right? Only listen. So there was actually, for me, in terms of the senses of the audience, it was actually quite split. Because your eyes, were taking in the beautiful, distinctive landscape along the river, but your ears were listening to text which the audience would understand. About refugees, and their experiences in Frankfurt. So, again, I was just thinking: Well, the director made a very deliberate choice, to import something which is foreign, into Japan, via Yokohama. So in this case, the text was from another place, the site was from another place, but the location was local. So if one had wanted to make this more Site-specific, meaning bringing the text nearer to Yokohama.
One possibility would have been to include some text from so called, migrants or foreign residents in Yokohama. And then the text would then become inter-textual, and there would be a dialogue between the two texts.
As well as, and I feel that the use of the Site, might be more, might be deeper or expanded in that sense.
Now, another project that I want to look at is called: Rest In Peace, Tokyo.
R.I.P, Tokyo. It was held in four, I went for four of the six events which was held last year.
It was held in:
- a small restaurant
- a community hall
- a room in a funeral service centre and
- a basement cafe
Now, this too has a kind of a walking part. The audience walked from the train station, all the way to the venue. And then the audience also sat down for a meal, that was part of the event. And there, also was a performance by the Director, Shirotama Hisojira. Where she spoke about the death of her cat, five years previously. And this kind of became a trigger, for this event.
It actually began, it was used as a trigger for a four year project called:
Tokyo Soup Blanket Travelogue.
Of which, Rest In Peace, Tokyo is only the final part. Comprising of six events.
And then, for me of the three activities, the walking, the eating by the audience and the performance where the audience sat and watched, again, the spectating. I felt the monologue was actually, the most important. So the Site I feel was used as a setting, for the performance of a monologue. And the monologue was very much about, it was an attempt to link the location to, Tokyo, a bigger site. As indicated by the title. So the place was local, but the intended site was actually the city.
So if you think about it logically, Tokyo. We know Tokyo is thriving, you know, of course, it’s like facing huge problems. Impending crisis from a greying population, and a shrinking population as well. But that in itself, will take some time before Tokyo dies, alright. But the event, therefore is an imaginary event. In the sense it was staging a commemorative event, for a Tokyo, that has died. And that linking is done thought the death of a cat. Which allowed the director to explore this issue of loss. Losing something, and linking that to changes happening in the neighbourhood. Linking of course, to the bigger changes happening in Tokyo.
And so, I feel that, the site, what is the site used for? What is the work of that performance? And I think that it’s very different from the other two projects. This site, is being used, almost like an expression for personal feelings. Very private, very personal feelings, but performed in a way, that could be slightly detached. Through, little bit of a distance, maintained between the performer and the audience. And it seemed to me, that the intention might be, to maybe nurture a kind of niche group.
Or a little community, where personal feelings could be voiced and understood.
Now that’s all the time I have for. Maybe, we could catch up later on something else. Okay, thanks.
(34:26) KT:
Thank you very much, Puay Tin. (Applause)
(34:31) KN:
Hello everyone, my name is Kaku Nagashima. Nihongo de shabemasu. I speak in Japanese.
(Translator)
Today, I’d like to talk about two Site-Specific works. There are both new, which were performed in the autumn of last year. And I worked on them as Dramaturge. The first is by Kakuya Ohashi and Dancers, the title was The World. This project started in 2013 and it already was announced as being a long-term project. And in September of last year, it was performed at a place in Tokyo called Toyosu. Which is described as Season 3, that’s the latest version. Kakuya Ohashi and Dancers are a contemporary dance group, who work based on the Ankaki Butoh methodology. And they started their activities in 1999, so they are pretty experienced.
The World, started in 2013. It’s a research-type project, which takes Specific locations as setting. The Koto ward, which is a Eastern part of the Central part of Tokyo, and the majority of this is actually reclaimed land. Dating back to the Pre-modern era, back to the Edo period. Research is conducted here, and the concept is based on Vampire Shisaku’s Memories of the space. And the vampires in this context are a metaphor for the artist.
It’s a Site-specific work, with Chizu Project. Which is created by going into the local communities, not into theatre. And usually, you accept that becoming friendly with local people is a good thing. And you are supposed to do that, it’s a given. But, in fact, artists tend to be very egoistic. They want desperately, are in need, they crave resources to create their work. They try to utilise everything. But if they show their true feelings, the local community is not going to accept them.
So, they actually have this hidden intention of taking things from that place, but they behave like gentleman. Which is the attitude of a vampire. One important characteristic of a vampire, as opposed to a zombie is, vampires require permission to go into somebody’s house. You have to let them in, they have to become acquaintances. They have to become invited to cross the threshold. Unlike zombies, they do not go around smashing windows, and breaking their way into human beings and dwellings. They are very well-behaved, but they always have this hidden intent.
And so the idea is, that these is exactly what research conducted by artists is like. And so that’s why the vampires are here. Also the vampires are asleep in the day and they wake up at night, which is very artistic. And so, that is part of the Artistic concept, they are very much like the artists.
You see, it’s very inconvenient being a vampire, so you always have to have human sidekicks. And they increase their number of followers and their hangers-on. That’s part of the concept of the Vampire Project. Another thing is, to suck out the memories of this place. The memories of this place, not blood.
You see, the way that we do it, in our project, people from our group, the researchers, go around interviewing people. Koto-ku, Koto ward, is a period which was gradually built onto. It’s reclaimed land from the Tokyo bay area and rivers from this area. And a lot of thing lies under the ground. For example, the rubble leftover from the Great Kanto earthquake of 1923, was also dumped here. After 1945, Great Fire raid, where there was major carpet bombing of Tokyo; a lot of the debris from that time was also buried underground and is still in Koto ward.
Now, moving forward to the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games, there is a lot of process of urbanisation, and revitalisation going on. So this is the history of this place, it’s also continuing to change. And what they did, is that they gathered together these memories to create the text.
I don’t know whether you are aware of this or not, but Butoh, the methodology at times uses text to create the choreography. They call it the Butoh score, so the score is actually a piece of text. However, they do not read it, they do not verbalise it, they do not speak it. So in that sense, it’s unlike theatre or drama. But the sensation, is converted into the way they sense, or the way they move. So, basic principle-wise, any text can be utilised or tapped for their performances.
In the case of Kakuya Ohashi and Dancers, they have in the past, used Science-fiction novels, they’ve used classical plays, or some of the plays that are accepted as part of their background of repertoire.
And in this project, they interviewed local people. They sucked the words and their memories like vampires sucking blood, and converted that into dance. So as we see redevelopment, and revamping of the city fabric, moving ahead to 2020; they consider what they are doing, as an act of archiving, of the memories of the pace, which is going to be disappearing in the shadows of this redevelopment.
I’ll just show a teaser of this. (Video plays on screen)
The text says:
Once the sun sets, you forget. When the moon rises, you remember
And I’d just like to show some photographs (Pictures appear next).
Here, the text which had been gathered around the community. And they converted that into a dance performance, which has been, within the context of a studio.
The second year, they went to cafes, and bars and restaurants. They formed a shoe shop, where they created the dance pieces. And the audience would be walking around in the city, going around to the different places and seeing the dances.
So this is The World, the first project. And this project itself, uses fiction, it is a very clear cut concept and also dramaturgy.
Another work that I’d like to introduce, this was mentioned in the previous presentation: Halfway to Hanshichi. The Japanese title is: Hanshichi ki dori. It’s Nakano Shigeki and Frankens. In October of last year, this was performed at Matsudo, which was in Chiba prefecture, next to Tokyo. And it was part of Festival Tokyo. So it was one of the programme elements, this is a drama, theatre piece. And a single story develops, well, people move around, between different locations. A lifehouse, former love hotel as they call it. The second floor of a kimono shop, the backyard and the back garden of a former rice merchant. A river’s bank and so on. There will be short scenes and then the staff will guide the audience to different places. Similar to the photos that you have already seen. So they move around, that’s me.
This is, the former love hotel. It’s used like motels in America for couples. This is the kimono shop, upstairs. So this is a traditional, Japanese tatami mat room. This is the Rice merchant, the backyard. It’s about a hundred years old. And this is the River’s bank. It’s a single piece, which has been split up into the scenes. And the scenes have been scattered all throughout the city. And, this city itself is the stage for the story. And the story is a narrative of the past. The flow of time is also unusual, because every scene takes you further back in history.
It starts on 1999 and goes back, and ends in ’91. So, the last scene, is the first scene that the audience experiences. Then they go on to the next scene and see the next, which actually takes place before the scene that they have just seen. And they go back, in the timeline, further back into the past. So, time is moving in reverse in the story, but the time which is experienced by the audience is in near-time. And at the end, they will find themselves by the river’s bank, at sunset. And they can see Tokyo, on the other side of the river, represented by its lights.
Now the story, is a detective story, it’s a mystery, based on a murder. And of course, the audience knows who committed the crime, the murderer. And they gradually understand, what took place, before the murder occurred. A husband killed his wife, and at the very end, the audience see how the two first met.
It’s something which took place over a very short period of time, unlike the vampire project that I spoke about earlier. But we are able to have a very friendly relationship with the local people, unlike the vampire project. And they were completely, totally supportive of us.
There is an artist-in-residence facility called Paradise Air, in Matsudo City, which is one of those former Love Hotel. Couples oriented place. And they introduced us to many, many different people. Also, the city government was extremely co-operative. And the Tourism organisation for the city were also supportive. So, it was a very short frame of time to create this, but we were able to use a lot of locations. And there was tremendous, fantastic backup and support, from the local government and also from the local people. So, it was a very happy experience. Here again, like the previous example, the actual city, and the story that took place in the past, that fiction was merged. And so, it was very clear cut dramaturgy, which you can see there.
The last thing I would like to mention, is on a slightly more abstract note. Dramaturgy, what is dramaturgy? I’d like to introduce my personal definition of it. It’s not an academic definition, it’s not theory based. I’m just giving you my personal understanding. My own personal perception that I have arrived at through my work.
Dramaturgy, is a method of handling drama, the skill, the technique of handling drama. So, what is drama? As you know, it goes back to ancient Greece, where it meant action. When you have a number of actions gathered together, then meaning will emerge. What actions and what order, for the combination, and what meaning emerges there; Dramaturgy, is what looks after that aspect.
It doesn’t just limit itself to the understanding or the interpretation, the unpacking of the meaning which emerges then. It relates to the skill of controlling the emergence of meaning itself. Going outside to the theatre space, doing performances while you move around the city itself, means that there are many other elements which enter into the equation.
Which makes the dramaturgy extremely complex. There are many different actions, planned actions on the part of the actors, sheer coincidence like a festival procession passing by, which happened to occur in the same time and the same place. The audience is also on the move, the multiple actions how they combine, how they balance each other, and what sort of meaning emerges. Taking care of that, I think, is a very important aspect of dramaturgy.
One more thing, just one more thing I’d like to add. Working on a project of this kind, when I think about Site-specific, or Site-specificity, is the tremendous speed at which the Cities and the times are changing. For example, when we began The World project, we often used to plan over a raised pedestrian walkway, it was like a bridge over a busy road. But this has now been torn down.
As for Halfway to Hanshichi, this Riverbank, it’s like Lala Land, it’s an homage to it. In the winter, the grass died, so everything is brown. But we noticed that the city itself, is really changing dramatically. Making something in Site-specific manner, means that: very limited time, very limited moments, are the moments to which we create a relationship. So, I think you could also say, Site-specific is also, an extract of the intertwined, with time specificity. Thank you. (Applause)
(53:58) KT:
Thank you very much, Kaku-san. Domo arigato gozaimashita. I believe that already, a lot of conversations, discussions going on, in these two presentations. Let’s see..
Let me invite our 3rd speaker Mr Masashi Nomura, please.
(54.53) MN:
Hi everyone, my name is Masashi Nomura. I am now living in Okinawa, the South-western island of japan. This time, I start my self-introduction (refers to background projected), now, I speak Japanese.
(Translator)
So, I’d like to begin by introducing myself. Ken introduced me, I worked in Tokyo for quite a while. And then I moved to Okinawa. Tokyo actually, isn’t where I was born and grew up. I grew up in Nagano prefecture, I came to Tokyo to go to University. And I joined a club, one of those regular clubs where you just start doing drama. I was told to act, then I was told to work on the Sound side, and then Director, playwright, and I also worked as Assistant Director.
After that, the people I was working with, decided to disband, so I had no choice, but to go to find a job. At a public hall, back at home, in another prefecture. So I worked in a position, similar to, a Manager or a Producer. That’s where, I started out as a Producer. 2007, I joined Hirata Oriza’s Komaba Agora Theater & Seienden theater company. So, I became involved on the Creative side and the Producer’s side. And as you can see, I didn’t actually have an academic background, on researching or writing about Dramaturgy.
It’s really been experienced based, so it’s empirical. And that’s been the basis of how I have been able to continue to work. Nagashima-san has really been, one of the very early Dramaturges in Japan. I actually was dubbed a Dramaturge by other people, I have never claimed to be a Dramaturge myself. 2008, I was described as Dramaturge and a Director’s Assistant. And as the company grew, a specific position of Assistant Director was appointed and I was left with the title Dramaturge. That’s all that was left to me. So, I would talk with the director, to work on the work-in-progress. We’d think together on what needed to be done, what should be done.
And what I do, is I try to do everything within my means, so that’s how I have been working with the creation of theatre and drama.
So, my official job has been to support Hirata Oriza’s work at Komaba Agora. At the same time, I have been working with my contemporaries in many ways, by joining in their creative process. Shu Matsui, Matsui-san, Shiba-san, Kamisato-san. This one, this gives the personal name first and the family name second.
I should mention that I’ve got Stage-fright today. Yudai’s workpiece, is being nominated for one of the most important prizes in Japan, for young playwrights. And they are in the process of judging the competition, and we are going to hear the results today. It’s the Shidakunio Prize. And last year, this is the only piece of work that I worked on as a Dramaturge, so today is very personal. Because that really important prize is going to be announced today, and I don’t know what’s going to happen.
Anyways, this is TPAM, so I should talk about my connection with TPAM. From 2011, I had 4 opportunities to work as one of the directors of TPAM direction.
Arts Councils wise, I am working on the Okinawa Arts Council. But 2012, when the Tokyo Arts Council was created, I joined in for 2 years as researcher. So, I would go to see performances, write up reports and then give them insight into, or try to give them some structure to how we should understand, or respond to those performances.
And then I began to think: perhaps I could try out as a Program Officer, and I had this job opportunity in Okinawa. So I moved over there. So I did not set out with Okinawa in my mind from the beginning. That’s why my life has been like this up till now. I never intended for things to happen this way, it simply happened. So that’s pretty interesting in its own way.
I’d like to talk about Okinawa next. Okinawa, I don’t know how much you know about Okinawa. Geographically speaking, it takes 2 - 3 hours flight to get to Okinawa if you’re flying from Tokyo. Seoul is closer, Shanghai is a bit closer, Hong Kong is a bit closer. Taiwan, you could go there in about an hour’s time. So that, I think gives you some sense on where Okinawa is located. If you look at Asia, and you plot a series of concentric circles on it, then you’d find that there are a lot of locations that are about the same distance from Okinawa that are from Tokyo.
Historically speaking, until the 17th century, they were completely independent as a Kingdom. They were one of the tribute kingdoms under the Chinese influence. Then they got invaded by the Japanese. Until then, they were a part of both China and Japan. And at the same time, they were independent and not really a part of either country. So they has a very interesting disposition. The difference between Okinawa and the other parts of Japan, looking at the performing Arts: (refers to projected chart on Okinawa History).
1609 - Satsuma is one of the feudal lords, one of the parts of Japan invaded them. And then, we had a: sort of we have control over them, but we are not really in control of them sort of relationship between Japan and Okinawa. After that and after the major restoration, then what is called the Disposition of Ryukyu, which formally means that we sort of decide to merge Okinawa. Okinawa is the site of the only land battle, which is fought at the end of World War II. Which means an amount of devastation, and then they were ruled by the Americans and they were occupied by the Americans until 1972, when the Americans handed it back.
Performing Arts, Folk Art. This can be traced back to the Ryukyu Kingdom, and historic performances, and the route of the more recent performances. Kumi-odori, here in the centre, was an Okinawa variation of Japanese Classical Traditional theatre like Noh or Kabuki. Okinawa Shibai, at the very bottom, is Okinawa dialect based plays. So, this is drama which uses only Okinawa dialect. Which is completely different from regular japanese.
(refers to projection of photos) This is Kumi-odori. (Translator changes) This is taken at the National Theater. Next slide, just some photos. As you can see, it’s very different from what you would see in mainland Japan. So, this’s Okinawa Performing Arts. Time-wise, how it corresponds. Kumi-odori, is the Ryukyu one. Before it was under the rule of Japan, you had the Ryukyu Kingdom. So, Kumi-odori existed till then. In modern times, Okinawa Play is brought up by the citizens of Okinawa. It’s done by the Okinawa dialect. The Japanese mainland people have difficulty appreciating what they were saying, and also the US Base people would not appreciate it. So, Okinawa Play, for the public in Okinawa, this is an important play for them in those days.
Next slide. It’s easy to follow, but I just made it simple to follow. In Japan mainland, before major restoration, we had Kabuki after the major restoration. To modernise it a bit, we now have modern drama that was introduced in mainland. And after World War II, we have the Shogekijo (small theatre). The underground theatre, kind of small theatres. And also Butoh, also came into play, using the body performance. So, this is like the contemporary, like Theatre Arts began.
This is the history, in Okinawa’s history. In performing arts, it’s not necessarily parallel.
Next slide. And then we come back to Japan. I got this slide from somewhere else, so maybe it’s redundant. Sorry. Next. This is the Okinawa Arts Council that I support. The ones that I’m involved with. These two opened last year. One is Atelier Mekaru, and the other one is the Peace Hall. It has about 80 seats, each.
Now, I go into my dramaturge portion of my presentation, which I will be very quick. I personally, the Program Officer of the Arts Council and Dramaturge, I think is related; for me, personally. And on top, at Okinawa, I have been working there and the Dramaturge experience is useful. Three points, my view towards the local community, Arts Council and Dramaturge and number three is the public funding. And then the Stowpipes Society.
First, about the local perspective. As I explained a bit and you may have gotten a little idea, the Okinawa people path and my background is alien. Works that express Okinawa is done by the mainland people, which I have also experienced. After I moved over to Okinawa, those sorts of works is sort of looking at Okinawa from the issues that Okinawa possesses. People who live in Okinawa have a different sense of the issue. We try to address things from the issues that people see from the outside. It’s like why I doing it, for whose purpose is questioned. Personally, creating these halls and so forth, why am I doing this?
The expression by the Okinawa people by themselves needs to be communicated to the outside world. We don’t want people to focus in through the eyes of the issue that Okinawa holds. So the mainland people may be looking at Okinawa from some issues, but I want to communicate what Okinawa people have in their minds. Like the way they express the issue, the way the mainland expresses it and the way that Okinawa expresses it is different. So as I engage with the Okinawa people, that explains as dramaturge is very good. I decide the process and go about through my logic is not the way I would carry it. I listen to the partner’s logic and how I can help is the approach.
Dramaturge is an intermediary, you are not the person to actually act on it. That methodology was very useful me to practise in my position in Okinawa. Even if I think I rather do it this way, or it should be done in this way kind of thought, I provide options to my colleagues in Okinawa. And if they agree to certain method, then we just work on those methods that were selected by them. The people in Okinawa may not agree of what I just mentioned, but anyway. My sense is that my culture and that Okinawa’s culture is totally different. For me to have them make the choice of how they want to present things, I don’t want to have some colonial type of way, of practice being done by me. We want to avoid that.
So in terms of producing as a Dramaturge, actually works well for me in Okinawa. In relations to Asia, as Ken said, huge money spent in Japan as funding. So, my number three point, I am on the side of providing funding. Public funding, tax. Asia Centre is providing lots of funding to Asia. What is this phenomena? I do think about it quite a lot. Especially japanese public funding, may be hard to work with is my sense. So, the private sector aid, I like this private sector way where we make sure that the private sector can do it on its own.
In the case of Japan, often the public sector is already looking down on you and sitting on top of you. So, when I thought about that, still, we don’t have this, or it seems that our social, the way we carry on with society. The old, in terms of seniority, and respecting the seniors, this kind of society, hierarchy, the dynamics, still remains. And it seems, funding also, the funding dynamics also gets mixed with that kind of seniority, in terms of funding. The private sector, the people who have the tax, want it to do it, but cannot can be carried out by the private sector. So they should thank the private sector for doing it on behalf of them. That will be an equal situation. But somehow, they just spend, putting money in, but they look down on you kind of thing. So that’s a concern that I have. (Translator changes)
So there’s this hierarchy, it might be just on the Japanese side, but it might be the same, or comparable situation in Asia. So there’s this force, very strong force, which, forced down through the hierarchy from a, position of superiority. So Program Officer position in an Arts Council, can at anytime put me possibly into a position of superiority hierarchy-wise. But, there’s also occasions, when a higher force, or a more, stronger force from above me, might be coming down on me. Trying to disperse that, as much as possible, so that, the grassroots people who are trying to work, can exert as much freedom as possible. That kind of thing, is what, as an Arts Council Program Officer, I’d like to think about, as a Dramaturge might. I don’t know whether I am able to achieve that or not, but that is my, Dramaturge cum Program Officer at an Arts Council philosophy. That’s it, thank you. (Applause)
(01:15:06) KT:
Thank you very much Masashi-san. And there have been a lot of important points I realised. Now, I would like to ask Puay Tin to come back. Can you quickly respond to these two presentations?
(01:15:29) LPT:
Well, I will try. Because, you know, they, between Kaku and Masashi; they have covered a lot of things. Now if I zoom out from the Site, you know the local Sites, and say okay, we zoom out to Japan. So, as an outsider, you know, I mean there are a few things which kind of caught my attention. And I’ve already covered this, in relation to Rest in peace, Tokyo as a project. There is a concern with rapid change. So I can use a term which was very popular in the 70s and the 80s, it’s like a future shock, which is happening right now. Rapid change and things are disappearing. And this is not just happening in the Productions or the reason for doing Site-specific productions. In conversations, people mention that very often.
So, there is the whole anxiety to archive the past. To collect memories, through interviews or through text, which could be collected, and images etc. So that, I feel is something that’s urgently happened. Actually I couldn’t as an outsider, appreciate the problems, that a shrinking and a greying population was posing to Japan. Until I began to read into it while I was here, in the past 6 months. And to understand that it’s not an intellectual exercise, it is something which is very deeply felt. And it of course, it will go into people’s work.
And the other thing is this tension, if you can put it that way, between the local and the big picture. You know, so Masashi is very aware of the politics as an outsider going to Okinawa. And I will say that, that kind of sensitivity is not always observed. Because I’ve seen a few other projects where, the artist comes in, and the artist does a project his or her own way. And then uses local resources or the community. And which I think, Kaku has mentioned the relationship with the community. It can a good thing, communities may welcome it. But it can also be very exploitative, and communities may resist that.
And I think that it is important as artist, especially if you’re an out, I don’t think whether you’re an outsider or an insider because there is also that class distinction. You know, your technology and the knowledge. So you know, I think that Ethics, which was something that How Yang has mentioned before. That Ethics, it’s not just dramaturgy. I think it just pertains to making performance. There is a certain sense of responsibility that goes with the artist, who makes a performance for the consumption of the public, period. And I think dramaturgy just falls, under that end bit.
And the other thing, I can also talk about that, the relational politics in Site-specific productions. Vis a vis, audience, so called ‘community’, the people living in the place where the Site is being used, may not be the target community. Because, it could be a performance, using local resources, but for an outside community to come. Because you are bringing in people to appreciate, it could be for a very good reason, like economic rejuvenation for example. But you know, that kind of awareness I think is important, to see that you are exploiting, but maybe sharing in some ways, right. So it’s not an outright, it’s not a colonisation again, in the name of Art, you know, even if it’s for a very good reason.
So I think the relational politics that we should be aware of, audience, community, performers, or the performance makers, it’s a very big group of people. And also the funders. So in the works that I’ve observed, there were very few that were just done on the initiative of the artists themselves. So one, it was a completely closed event, it was a private event for his family, where, the dancer Osamu Jario did a dance event for his parents. And he invited another choreographer, and his parents as well. And so it was an exchange, between two choreographers and two sets of parents. And because, again, addressing this issue of time, because their fathers were old. And one of them was stricken with cancer.
So the option of the artist, doesn’t have to be to do a project in public. It can be completely private, and then you still satisfy, you know the Site-specific, using the Site to do something, which is beneficial. Without any monetary transaction, right. The other performance that I saw, which also, was involving a kind of initiative from the artist, so it wasn’t a commission by anyone else. Was actually, I saw it 2 years ago, in Bushio-san, in Takamatsu. Where the artist, Natsuki Ishigami, she went and worked with the community in Bushio-san. But she used the community as social capital. And therefore, the exchange was very, was put on the table; very clearly, I think the terms were negotiated. So, you don’t exploit me as an artist for your own gains, and neither will I exploit you. There was no, I think, very little monetary exchange between the two parties. It was like, sponsorship of spaces, accommodation, and then food. So it was the most harmonious so-called, community project, being done by an outsider; with the local community, that kind of benefitted both sides.
Going back to, there was one project that I couldn’t talk about. Do I have the to talk about that? No, okay. Okay. Because I really want to mention a production called Toki Toki Saru, that was staged as the opening show for Festival Tokyo, and the director was Pichet Klunchun from Thailand. I would be very happy to have a private conversation with anyone of you on that production. Thank you so much. (Applause)
(01:22:09) KT:
Thank you Puay Tin. Actually we really have to finish by 6 ‘o clock, but we still have some time for questions from the floor. Any questions? I want to take one or two.
Please. Please wait for the microphone.
(01:22:33) Q1:
Hi, thank you for a very interesting talk. I just felt, as somebody who, I’ve lived in Japan now for 15 years, and I practise here, I do Theatre. And I feel, when I see, when I go to see a lot of Art in this country, that I feel like there are a lot of missed opportunities in terms of social, you know covering the topic of this conversation, social change and action. So you know, we talked about a murder that happened. How many shows have we got about, there’s like International human trafficking, in terms of sex workers in Japan. And those people are murdered, and there is very little investigation. As far as I’ve seen, I don’t an encyclopaedic knowledge of Japanese theatre for the last 15 years, but the only productions I’ve seen that cover that are by the foreign community, either the Filipino community or the English language community in association with the Filipino community.
We talked about the boat Site-specific thing, that had the immigrant. It was boat immigrants to Germany? And I felt that, especially this year when it was announced that Japan accepted 20 out of 20 000 applications for asylum, that those things aren’t being connected here by our artists. And I’m hungry, I’m really hungry for more of that. Is this stuff happening and I’m not seeing it? Is it too far underground? What, yeah, what, what’s happening guys?
(01:24:23) KT:
Thank you, it’s a very general question in a sense, but if, maybe Kaku-san or Masashi-san, can you respond to them?
(01:24:36) KN:
Thank you for your question. Nihongo de, in Japanese.
(Translator)
It’s true that compared with other countries, Europe, social issues being taken up, is something that doesn’t happen quite frequently. It’s very rare to find that in Japan. My understanding is that there are a number of factors that come into play here.
One, is that international issues for the Japanese are considered to be far from themselves. They are considered to be distant things, they are not immediate. Another thing is that, if you’re active in Tokyo. Tokyo, is in itself, extremely complex. And, in that context, living in Tokyo, while you are Japanese, there are many people who have a sense that they have no place which they can call themselves bound to, or linked to. They feel disconnected.
That’s the place where I am active. And, I think Puay Tin mentioned this consumption, that sheer consumption. That’s something I am very weary of. I am very much on my guard.
Going back to the vampire project, artists are very egotistic. But unless you are careful, you are simply going to consume and gobble up the local community as material. I am very concerned about that. I also do my best and I do everything possible to try to make sure that does not happen. Artists can do that, are capable of doing that. And the same thing can apply to major scale public grants. That it is possible, that local community might be simply consumed for a project. Artists themselves might be simply gobbled up in the process of that happening, that is something that I want to be always cautious about.
(01:26:50) PT:
This is from my own experience from Malaysia. What I personally find is that, a play, or a performance, doesn’t have to be political; by inclusion of, or by treating a recent political issue or a social issue. That itself, won’t make that performance or that text political. Because in Malaysia, we also don’t tackle those issues upfront, because we’ll be shut down, right. So we have to treat it from the ground. Like what is happening there, and then we’ll reflect the reality through characters, through fiction, through various other ways, through dance, through music.
So if you know the local condition, you will understand what the issues are. So it may be some kind of explanation or mediation to outsiders, to that culture may be needed. But I will say that in the main, we treat those, but it may not be visible immediately, to someone not from that culture or society.
(01:27:58) NM:
(Translator)
It’s very difficult to respond to. I think, it’s something that the Japanese should be working on at the same time. The Performing Arts and the context in society, if it’s fundamentally different, then what happens then? For example, the media may not be picking something up, but there are people who live there in that reality. So how would institutions or politics in capital letters, be linked into, with those issues, is something that is part of what we should be doing. But we can’t just look at Performing Arts and know all about, or learn all about the world. Or about Japan, as I say. Unfortunately, that’s true.
(01:28:54) KT:
Okay then, one last question, if you have any. Okay, if there is no more question probably. Please join me to thank these three speakers. Thank you very much. (Applause)
(01:29:14) Staff:
Thank you Ken for organising this panel. Thanks everyone for spending our time here today with us. The ADN Conversation continues tomorrow, that’s our last day.
In the morning at 10:30, we will be in the library, just over here (gesture to left of audience), the smallest space, continuing topics in dramaturgy. So there were a lot of questions today from the floor, about terminology, asianess. And I think we will take that conversation next in a more casual, break out sessions with new participants.
And in the afternoon, we close with a roundtable. Artistic direction as Thought Leadership. And that will be happening in this big space here with simultaneous translations.